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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Lol... as the name says really... have any of you had to use fatty weight gaining foods and what did you use that had the most effect?

Bisto has his medical condition and because of this i can't stuff his face with hay or haylage and so im trying to get him to gain weight (as he'll struggle this winter) now...

Bisto is currently getting (bare with me...) 2 x cups of conditioning cubes soaked down, 2 cups of fast fibre soaked down (switching to either veteran vitality or calm and condition), a cup of barley rings soaked down, 3 large scoops of sugar beet and oil twice daily. This is essentially a full medium sized feed bucket... with all the water it weighs a bluddy tonne!!!

The barley rings are a new addition as i wasn't happy with the weight he was at... but any other suggestions? Holding off with the equijewel types for the time being but thinking it might have to be started sooner than later, although am hoping the barley will do it. Smile

Faaaaanks!
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BOGGIT
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fish an chips and several pint's of guinness folowed by a large kebab and curry sauce Rolling Eyes that would put weight on any thing Wink Wink Wink
oh And a Holland's pie they would put wieght on a twig Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing

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grey shire
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i dont like barley it can blow their joints out.
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Dothan Grey Lad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I use the calm and condition, one large stubs scoop twice a day, its brilliant stuff and i really noticed a HUGE difference. Don't use anything else apart from adding the odd apple! We had the allen and page rep out and she recommended that for wait gain, the fast fibre was for maintaining current condition. Hope this helps! Very Happy
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Loubie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Why cant he have hay? that must cause him problems? how awful.
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

He's got a balloon in his oesophagus which catches any form of long or short chopped fibre. Hay and haylage is out of the question, as is long grass, chaff... readigrass... you name it.

I have never heard of barley doing that to a horses joints... do you know why it would?

Haha - Bisto would happily eat fish and chips i'm sure! Bit of ketchup too though not to mention guiness! Wink

Thanks for that with the calm and condition - does that soak down to a mash easily like the fast fibre?
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Dothan Grey Lad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Yep soak it, takes 10 mins so bit longer than fast fibre. Smile
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Domane
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I wouldn't be feeding lots of starch because he's a biggie and therefore at the risk of EPSM, so I'd ditch the barley. Oil, linseed or soya if you can afford it, or vegetable or sunflower if you're like me. BOSS too (especially if he has a dark coat!) and possibly Selenivite E to help the absorption of the oil.

Coolstance's Copra is meant to be fantastic - IF you can source it locally.....
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just oil? Because he was on huge quantities of oil and it was doing very little... I'd be willing to try again but I'm running out of time with which to get him up to a safe weight... Sorry if I sound defeatist anyone but it has taken so long to find stuff he can eat safely!
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Domane
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Unfortunately, only a certain percentage of oil can be absorbed each feed so you may just be feeding more than he can cope with.... the supplement will help with the absorption but it all gets very expensive. How often do you feed him as it is well documented that 3 or even 4 small feeds per day will put more condition on than one or two bigger ones, but that's not always practical with the lifestyle that we live. I'd definitely try to get hold of some Copra, it's coconut based but soaks down to look a little like C&C so no chaff. It's coconut, including the oil and smells lovely. Most horses love it.

Have you asked your vet for advice, bearing in mind Bisto's medical condition?

What a dilemma for you and a huge logistical challenge. xxx
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Loubie
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

How awful for you. Is a bulge in the oesophagus itself? Can the vets not do anything surgicaly to put it right?
Cant imagine how you would get enough feed into him and it must cost a fortune?
We had an old boy that lost most of his teeth and was fed mush only for the last few years. That was hell. He suffered terribly with colic due to not enough fibre and didnt keeep weight on.

Did your vets give you any advice? I would insist on a referral to a nutritionist asap, as Domane said, the need for high % of forage and the risk of EPSM in heavies is a concern.
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:30 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

When Bisto was originally diagnosed with the condition his prognosis was very poor as he was actually choking most nights and sometimes during the day as well, so we never expected to be attempting to get him through the winter as it just didn't seem fair... However with some serious determination i found food he could eat and therefore with strict management he's still here and normally not a choke in sight.

He will soon be moving closer to home so I could definitely try 3 feeds a day even if i can't manage 4. I'll see if i can get ahold of Copra as it sounds interesting - he's a gannet for anything sweet so would be well away i'd imagine!

It's a logistical nightmare as he's going to be wintering out with the babies who CAN have hay - i've even been considering trying to chop/steam/soak hay/haylage and trying him on it but it makes me feel sick to think of me making him choke because i'm desperate for him to have something "normal" to eat.

The condition basically can't be operated on, the leading specialist in the country said it's management only. As the "dip" is right where his oesophagus levels out and enters his stomach if we attempted to remove the portion that's damaged, not only would his oesophagus most likely actually be physically long enough, the peristaltic movement that occurs would be likely to be interrupted... causing more choke... or cease working altogether and result in him having to be pts. It's a sad and sorry state of affairs, particularly as he's not very old.

Luckily, monetary wise in summer he appears to pick up, and thankfully i have somewhere free to have him over winter, no facilities but he'll need to be retired i think to maintain weight, so his livery money can go into paying for his feed... sugar beet is cheap... conditioning cubes aren't, but he goes through about a bag every 3 - 4 weeks.

Fibre wise i have the options of alfa beet as advised by Dengie, lucie nuts/bricks/ cobs soaked down as suggested by Simple Systems and basically offering the big guy big buckets of "hard" feed for him to eat in the event we get snow this year (which we almost undoubtedly will) and getting out the ol' snow shovel...

He's such a lovely boy, it seems criminal to give up at this point when he's doing so well... it's just a matter of looking around and searching until we find the right things for him... And offering him grass that's thick, but not long... Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Have you tried Spillers feed balancer. It has made a huge difference to Murphy's weight and his hoofs and coat looks great. Failing that Blue Chip is good for putting on the beef but its bloody expensive Wink

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kay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I cant advise on feed, as all i had to do was feed my boy little and often and plenty of love. just wanted to say 'wow' at how you are coping and managing this difficult condition, one very lucky horse to have a mummy to give such love, care and thought to everything about of his care. Very Happy Very Happy
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

domane you are very knowledgable
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Domane
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

grey shire wrote:
domane you are very knowledgable

Embarassed Ooh, no, I'm really not!!! A friend of mine has a horse with EPSM and mentioned that it's common in heavies so I've read up on it so that I can be ready to notice any symptoms. When Jack first came he was so underweight (see pics in my Just Jack diary fred) and I was all poised to fill him up with conditioning mix when I was reminded about starch and suger being really bad for big, heavies so I added lots of oil instead... with the Selenivite....

And my previous horse, a TB, couldn't have anything with sugar in it... not even carrots or Polo's (sugar sent him mental) AND he had bad hooves so I learned all I could about gaining and keeping weight on a weedy TB, without resorting to mollasses or grain. (And I also learned a lot about hooves and being barefoot too, but that's a whole nuther story!!! Laughing )

That's all....
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i have googled that coconut food, interesting. and yes u are knowledgable take a compliment lol :D
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

kay wrote:
just wanted to say 'wow' at how you are coping and managing this difficult condition, one very lucky horse to have a mummy to give such love, care and thought to everything about of his care. Very Happy Very Happy


Thanks. Embarassed He's currently lame as well, just to add that into the equation so i was up there today in the rain, rugging him, putting his magnetic boot on and praying he doesn't get this EPSM... gonna go and look this up now! Give me another thing to worry about with him. Rolling Eyes

Why do we have horses? Remind me? Wink
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

In fact... here's some photos of him tonight eating his "special" tea and wearing his rug and magnetic boot. Laughing

Image

His dinner.... this had taken him a good while to get half way through the bucket... Rolling Eyes

Image

His "special" boot. Laughing
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Domane
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well how could you possible resist THAT gorgeous boy!!! Very Happy
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:16 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

^^ My thoughts exactly.
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i like the pink piping on the rug
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Big is beautiful
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

grey shire wrote:
i like the pink piping on the rug
YUK!!!! Bloody pink should be banned Laughing Laughing

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vetgirl
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

You lot do make me smile.
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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Big is beautiful wrote:
grey shire wrote:
i like the pink piping on the rug
YUK!!!! Bloody pink should be banned Laughing Laughing


It's faded red anyway not pink - brown and red amigo. Laughing
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

lol dont come to my stables if u dont like pink!!
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Jovi
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Laughing Laughing

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grey shire
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

big pink water buckets in asda 3 quid lol
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Big is beautiful
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

grey shire wrote:
big pink water buckets in asda 3 quid lol
YUK YUK YUK have you ladies no taste Laughing Laughing

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Domane
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Laughing

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BOGGIT
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Domane how did you sneek into shells tack room its like fort knock's Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

shell's pic of heaven Very Happy xx

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Ditsy Mare
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:39 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow!!! Shocked I like the look of your local tack shop!!! Where is THAT?! (Not the pink but the sheer size it appears to be! Laughing )
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:50 am Reply with quoteBack to top

hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh my goodness it shel's tack shop!!!!! look at all that pink im happy now Laughing Laughing
pm'd u boggit

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Domane
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It's the "new, improved" equine section in our local Countrywide store (overpriced! Shhhh... did I actually say that? Shocked )
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grey shire
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

lucky u having a countrywide store

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